Curse

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 23, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Having played the whole game with my necromancer, including countless runs to Fissure of Woe, Underworld and Sorrows Furnace, I think it is fair to say i have a reasonable grasp of the workings of a necro, and an SS in particular. It is also commonly accepted that the role of the SS is a main damage dealer along with an elementalist or minion master. It annoys me therefore when I get eles and monks asking me for Blood Ritual constantly. First of all I think it is a waste of a skill slot. You only get 8 on Guild Wars and there are a lot more than 8 skills i could think of to put in an SS build. I dont mind sacreficing one skill slot for Res Sig because it can save entire parties from failure.

I believe Blood Ritual however is a mere accessory that lazy monks and lazy elementalists have got used to something which is nice and convenient but is not needed. I accept the need for it in a Barrage Party, but the order necro is a blood necro. Spiteful Spirit is a Curses attribute spell. Why i should waste points in blood magic to look after other peoples energy in a mission party of FoW, or even UW, is beyond me.

I understand the arguement for BR, it supports team mates and can save a bonder from losing their bonds, but if you cannot maintain your own energy, weather youre an elementalist or monk or any other profession, you lack an essential skill. That being energy management.

Renegade26 · Nov 23, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

You're only playing SS because other ppl in FoW and UW tell you to. Use another elite and try and out you're own builds. If you're using a blood build and you want to give BR to other characters then do. But they only get 1 energy per second it lasts, and really isn't that great. Tell them to take energy tap, or something as simple as that, it's not youre job to deal with their energy.

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 23, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

"I dont mind sacreficing one skill slot for Res Sig because it can save entire parties from failure."

Then you shouldn't mind bringing BR for the monks only. If I bring BR, it's for the monks, all other classes better adjust their builds so they don't drain their energy so fast. If any other class besides the monk needs energy, it can wait. Just remember that even the best monks run out of energy and there's plenty of occasions where they'll get put under alot of pressure. Rangers got expertise, ele's got attunements, necs got soul reaping.......monks would need to spread out their attribute points and bring energy-gain skills which arn't always reliable. You don't need to put points into blood for BR, it's only a 2sec recharge.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 23, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Warriors should be the main damage dealers. And I can't think of that many skills that are crucial for an ss necro that they can't sacrifice something for their monks.

If any ele asks for a BR he should be kicked.

Sekkira · Nov 23, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

monks would need to spread out their attribute points and bring energy-gain skills which arn't always reliable.

Energy management isn't the elite skill that gives you energy.

On topic though, I completely agree with the OP. If a Monk wants me to bring BR for him, he can go to buggery. He should learn to manage his own energy, if he can't do that, why should I change my build so not only am I managing my energy, but his as well?

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 24, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I dont only use SS because parties tell me to, i happen to think it is a very good Curse, the most powerful hex spell in the game in my opinion. There isnt another damage dealing necro elite that i would change it for.

Monks dont necessarily get put under a lot of pressure. Lets take a 5 man FoW party for instance. The warrior should be buffed up enough to take a lot of damage and he should be able to group and collect aggro. Then the casters move in and hit the enemies, without taking aggro. The monk should not have a lot of work to do if the other party memebers dont put themselves in danger. Its when the enemies get into your back lines and start screwing things up that monks get put under pressure. A good team will not allow enemies into their back lines.

Also, monks can be efficient with their energy. As well as my SS I have a monk with over 2 mil exp and much of that came from healing. I believe 5 energy quick recharge healing skills are the best. a) because they only cost 5 energy and b) because they can often be very powerful. Dwaynas Kiss in FoW heals for over 200 on many occasions as does Word of Healing. I use Orison and Healing Touch for self healing. I try to stay away from 10-15 energy heals as your energy can quickly evaporate. I do bring heal area to FoW and Heal Party to Tombs. As well as Healing Breeze always. I only use these however if i have a lot of energy and the team is grouped (heal area) has taken a hit such as E surge or wurm siege (heal party) or has big degen/being attacked constantly (healing breeze).

The reason i chose res sig over BR any day. What if the healer dies in combat? The bonder cant use rebirth he will lose bonds. The tank is probably or should be busy and the ele is usually short on energy or casting spells. A Curse, or hex is something cast on the enemy with a lasting effect so the necromancer spends a lot of his time waiting for his skills to recharge. He has a few seconds to spare to use res sig which could save the party.

Hidden Prayers · Nov 24, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I personally think that this kind of logic is silly.

If you're joining a PUG, you should not expect to be dealing with people who know how to manage their energy effectively. If I deal with PUGs I bring BR because I don't expect much out of them.

I figure that if I want the run to be successful I have to support my teammates as well as play my role in the team. If that means sacrificing a skill slot and reducing my effectiveness then so be it. As long as my most necessary skills are being used and I'm not forced to change my build's intent then I'm fine.

Now if I'm running in a guild group or with friends who I know know what they're doing, then I don't assume that they will need extra energy or other support and I can focus on what I'm meant to do: deal damage and cause havoc

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 24, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I agree that random teams arent co ordinated and often do need support. but it just annoys me that I should be the energy bitch!! I dont bring BR if i can help it.

Pick Me · Nov 24, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

As a SS Necro/Mesmer, I will ask the PUG if they need me to bring BR. If they say no, then I know I'm in a good PUG.

If they say yes, then I'll bring it, as it really doesn't matter to me, since I can steal energy, soul reap, and heal myself easily enough through any battle. I damage deal and help support my team.

Honestly, if an elementalist asks for an energy boost, he/she has only asked that of me after a battle. I'm happy to ablige, since I can't just sit around and wait for them to recover energy on their own.

romeus petrus · Nov 24, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I run a N/Me build in FoW with reckless haste and MoP. I usually give the team a choice between a rez sig or BR. And you're absolutely right 90% of the times they would pick BR. I honestly prefer to bring BR to support the monks than to bring a rez sig that I may use just once (or not at all).

For the poster who stated that warriors are the main damage dealers, I say you obviously haven't played an SS/MoP necro before and watched high dmg numbers fly rapidly over almost every enemy in the mob. I can't think of anything that can beat the dmg output from a correctly placed SS in the right setting, even after the new update "nerf".

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 25, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

ok whats a PUG and whats MoP. Im not a noob, but there so many abbreviations....

jesh · Nov 25, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

PuG = Pick up Group, which is any random group you'll be in on a mission or the like.

MoP = Mark of Pain, a spell in the necro curses line.

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 26, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

The only reason I dislike bringing BR is because ive got a monk with over 2 mil exp and i dont need blood ritual when im healing, and i dont expect it when im bonding. My healing build is energy efficient, so i dont see why others cant be energy efficient either.

Glints Bane · Nov 26, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Ok I've been doing SS for a long time and i mean a long time! I've done sorrows furnace farms I've done UW and FoW and More elite places and when a monk asks me to bring me BR i do, no questions! Because that monk is the only thing keeping our group alive! Necro gives Monk energy and Monk gives all LIFE! When I run a SS build I only NEED around 5 skills(Arcane Echo, SS, Reckless Haste, Spinal shivers, Res sig). That leaves me with 3 skill slots to mess around with and bring different skills( one of which is BR if monk wants it). Now you say when you monk you dont need it but I know when I play with my monk I can use it sometimes in hot spots. So with that said I will continue to use BR and when a monk asks for it you should bring it also!

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 26, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

You shouldnt use reckless haste in a regular SS build. Its a waste of energy which could be spent on more potent damage dealing spells or useful self heals.
I admit occasionally when im healing there are tights spots, but that is the fault of the team for putting themselves in danger. Not many people will understand this, but a barrage party in tombs could exist and succeed without a healer. As long as everyone does their job well. Monks shouldnt get into trouble as long as all the team are doing their own job properly.
I hate nothing more than making up for the inadequacies of others and at the same time compremising my own potential.

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 27, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

You guys really gotta remember that not all monks are......smart at bein one

"Glf monk to start! 7/8" Is possibly the most typed out message when it comes to pugs, but everyone seems to forget that a real monk can easily be worse than a hench monk. I prefer hench monks myself almost all the time.

If you team with a monk you've don't even know, be ready for anything, and that applies to all players in any pug

Everyone is expected to bring rez pretty much everywhere.....necros happen to have the gift of a lil blood-giving to help prevent use of that rez sig. Be glad you got it....I know my nec is

AuraofMana · Nov 28, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

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"I dont mind sacreficing one skill slot for Res Sig because it can save entire parties from failure."

Then you shouldn't mind bringing BR for the monks only. If I bring BR, it's for the monks, all other classes better adjust their builds so they don't drain their energy so fast. If any other class besides the monk needs energy, it can wait. Just remember that even the best monks run out of energy and there's plenty of occasions where they'll get put under alot of pressure. Rangers got expertise, ele's got attunements, necs got soul reaping.......monks would need to spread out their attribute points and bring energy-gain skills which arn't always reliable. You don't need to put points into blood for BR, it's only a 2sec recharge.

Seconded.

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If any ele asks for a BR he should be kicked.

Go play an Ele and see if you can keep your energy up even with 16 in Storage.

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I dont only use SS because parties tell me to, i happen to think it is a very good Curse, the most powerful hex spell in the game in my opinion. There isnt another damage dealing necro elite that i would change it for.

It WAS the most powerful hex spell in the game.

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Monks dont necessarily get put under a lot of pressure

Obviously never monked.

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A good team will not allow enemies into their back lines.

Tell that to the aggro AI and its evil "find soft target" ness.

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The reason i chose res sig over BR any day. What if the healer dies in combat

What if the monster won't die because your ele has no energy left, and then it goes up and kills your monk, and then your whole party gets owned?

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He has a few seconds to spare to use res sig which could save the party.

If you are in the middle of a battle and your monk DIEs, and you are sitting there waiting to use all your skills before rezzing the Monk, I don't think all these trips and game experiences you had taught you anything important yet.

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I agree that random teams arent co ordinated and often do need support

You people that whine about PUGs, how about you actually COORDINATE with them before you leave for quest/mission? You know it's easier to say a few words or ask them what they are running and telling them to Ctrl + Click Skill Bar than to whine about PUGs all day.

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As a SS Necro/Mesmer, I will ask the PUG if they need me to bring BR. If they say no, then I know I'm in a good PUG.

If they say yes, then I'll bring it, as it really doesn't matter to me, since I can steal energy, soul reap, and heal myself easily enough through any battle. I damage deal and help support my team.

Honestly, if an elementalist asks for an energy boost, he/she has only asked that of me after a battle. I'm happy to ablige, since I can't just sit around and wait for them to recover energy on their own.

You are awesome.

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The only reason I dislike bringing BR is because ive got a monk with over 2 mil exp and i dont need blood ritual when im healing, and i dont expect it when im bonding. My healing build is energy efficient, so i dont see why others cant be energy efficient either.

Not everyone plays the same build or is at the same level. You have to assume the worst, that's the reason why you bring Rez in the first place isn't it?

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You shouldnt use reckless haste in a regular SS build. Its a waste of energy which could be spent on more potent damage dealing spells or useful self heals.

Ok.. Reckless Haste not only lessens damage dealt on the tank and w/e the monster hits, it SPEEDS UP THE PROCESS OF KILLING WITH SS. GASP, this means that omg... fight lasts shorter and your monk expends less energy.. and omg your whole party has less chance of getting owned. I don't see how you would use a slot for self-heal (last time I check all the self-heals for Curse sucks, and don't even go to Blood Renewal, it's not reliable enough and Demonic Flesh is.. -.-)... now you would use a slot for a half-assed self-heal instead of more energy for your monk, who, GASP, is the expert in healing in the party.

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I admit occasionally when im healing there are tights spots, but that is the fault of the team for putting themselves in danger

Of course, it's never your fault. The monsters saw me, I didn't aggro!

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Not many people will understand this, but a barrage party in tombs could exist and succeed without a healer. As long as everyone does their job well.

Yes they can, but will everyone do his or her own job? If you believe that so deeply why do you bring Rez?

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I hate nothing more than making up for the inadequacies of others and at the same time compremising my own potential.

Your job is to use SS, and that is IT. BR is your POTENTIAL, but you refuse to use it. Last time I check, I haven't seen a character build that can self-manage energy and health endlessly.
SS = SS + Arcane Echo + Awaken the Blood + SV + gee.. IDK 4 slots left.. throw in a Rez, then Reckless Haste, 2 spots left =/ OMG let's bring a half-assed heal and use Blood Renewal.. heck screw that BLOOD WELL FTW... oo 1 spot left.. BR!

If you are SS, you might as well use Blood Well with your 7~9 Blood Magic. Then use BR so that the Monk can HEAL MORE. Trust me, the monk can heal you better than you can heal yourself.

Phoenix Sebolta · Nov 28, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I dont think you understood, i dont bring "half assed self heals" i bring other skills which deal damage. I dont only use SS, there are plenty of other skills which are hugely effective at dealing damage.

You mentioned the ele not being able to kill a monster and it going and killing the monk. Hang on a minute! Cant necromancers deal damage, or did i just imagine that?!? What if i failed to kill a monster because i was busy casting BR on someone and it went and smashed up a monk?

You talked abot my potential. BR isnt my potential. In my SS build i have 9 points in domination magic and i bring power spike and power leak to FoW for interupting monks. Not only do these interupt but they deal extra damage or take energy. Meteor shower wont interupt every spell. I bring desecrate enchantments for spiking. I bring malaise for energy degen on monks also.
THAT ^ is my potential, not just to cast one hex, but to do all sorts of stuff that annoys the enemies.

Are you telling me that one energy per second on some caster, whos wasted most of it with 10+ energy heals or gone and fireballed the same group of skeletal beserkers that i have SS on, is a reasonable exchange for a skill slot? Regenerating an eles energy in between fights isnt worth one skill slot either.

As for talking before the mission. From now on, maybe ill kick a monk if his skill bar reads something along the lines of heal other, heal area, heal party, healing breeze.......

Jetdoc · Nov 28, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta

You talked abot my potential. BR isnt my potential. In my SS build i have 9 points in domination magic and i bring power spike and power leak to FoW for interupting monks. Not only do these interupt but they deal extra damage or take energy. Meteor shower wont interupt every spell. I bring desecrate enchantments for spiking. I bring malaise for energy degen on monks also.

THAT ^ is my potential, not just to cast one hex, but to do all sorts of stuff that annoys the enemies.

This is the key to your thread...

The question you need to ask yourself is - what is more valuable to your party? Interrupting or healing power?

If you are partying with no rangers or mesmers, then I would agree that those additional skills you bring to "annoy" the enemies are valuable and almost essential.

However, when you're partying with sufficient interrupters, many of the skills you've mentioned are basically overkill. Healing support (via BR) is probably a better place for your energy (and focus) to be better spent.

You also have to realize that while you're casting those other skills, that is both energy AND time that you could be using to SS other enemies.

AuraofMana · Nov 28, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

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I dont think you understood, i dont bring "half assed self heals" i bring other skills which deal damage.

Here's a problem almost everyone makes - they assume they need at least 50% + of their skill bar dealing damage to be efficient in damage dealing.
When you were using half-assed self heals it was bad enough, now you don't even have that OR anything for the monk.

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Cant necromancers deal damage

Notice: SS activates when monsters hit you. You don't have Reckless Haste which means the monsters WILL hit you. IDk, is it better for the Ele to nuke them to death before they get to you or the part where you take damage along with them and die killing them?

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What if i failed to kill a monster because i was busy casting BR on someone and it went and smashed up a monk?

Worse than not even having a chance for the monk to get some energy so he can save your ass.

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Meteor shower wont interupt every spell.

Nobody said it did.

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Are you telling me that one energy per second on some caster

BR gives 3 energy pip of regen, thats 6 energy per second. Even at lvl 0 Blood Magic it gives 8 seconds, which is enough to replenish the monk's energy decently. So... I thought you played a lot?

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ireballed the same group of skeletal beserkers that i have SS on, is a reasonable exchange for a skill slot?

What's better: You getting owned and monster dies or monster dies and you stay alive?

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Regenerating an eles energy in between fights isnt worth one skill slot either.

Farming is about having less members and spend short time. Right now you spend most of your time regening energy, pro farmer right there.

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As for talking before the mission. From now on, maybe ill kick a monk if his skill bar reads something along the lines of heal other, heal area, heal party, healing breeze.......

You are completely right, Heal Other suck so much, and Heal Area, not even worth healing... and Heal Party sucks... omg.. I mean who heals massive amount of people at the same time?
Healing Breeze? I don't believe in Degens.

SS + Reckless Haste + Power Spike + Malaise + maybe Enfeeble.. hmm.. 3 skill slots left?
SS's job is to SS, not to spam hexes on enemies. Do your job and support the monks. You don't see MM going in the front line and using a sword because they can.